Can AI Games Be Good?

This discussion dives into the heated debate around AI-generated games, arguing that despite the negativity, they might actually be a good thing, similar to how Flash games revolutionized accessibility back in the day. It contrasts the potential of AI to lower the barrier for entry in game development with the significant problems plaguing the established game industry, including a lack of open source culture, high friction for new developers, and a toxic relationship between gamers and creators.

Here's a breakdown of the key points and feelings expressed:

AI Games & The Peter Levels Example:

• AI-generated games are here, and they're getting a lot of flak. While some criticism is valid, it's not all bad news.
• A developer named Peter Levels (Levels.io) famously used AI tools (like Cursor) to quickly build a 3D flying game with HTML and 3JS (a powerful 3D graphics library for browsers – importantly, not just basic HTML/JS as he claimed). He feels it's like 'vanilla' because the AI handled the choice, reducing the overwhelming decisions new devs face.
• This simple browser game went viral, plastered with ads, making Peter a lot of money quickly.
• This naturally frustrates experienced developers who've dedicated years to their craft and earned far less.
• However, the anger might be pointed in the wrong direction. The real issue isn't Peter or the AI tools, but deeper problems within the game development world.
• AI tools are seen as potentially helping the next generation of indie developers get their start, even if the games themselves aren't groundbreaking right now.
• Think of current AI game tools like training wheels – helpful for getting started, even if seasoned pros don't need them.
• It's felt that you still need to understand and write some code (using tools like Cursor) to make even a basic playable AI game; it's not just push-button magic.

The Flash Games Analogy:

• Remember Flash games? Back in the day (think Newgrounds, Addicting Games), Flash was the way to make interactive stuff online.
• It dramatically lowered the friction (difficulty/effort) for anyone wanting to make a game.
• Why was Flash special?
  • Accessibility: Tools were relatively easy to start with (even if ActionScript was clunky).
  • Distribution: Easy to upload and share on portals.
  • Novelty: Tons of unique, weird ideas emerged.
  • Cost: Mostly free to play (ad-supported).
  • Consistency: Flash ran almost everywhere thanks to the plugin.
• This led to an explosion of games (>170,000 archived!). Most were junk ("shovelware"), but some were gems that launched careers (like Bloons TD, PopCap games).
• Flash inspired a whole generation of game developers and even software devs.
• A key factor was the short "time to smile" – how quickly a beginner could get something working and feel rewarded, encouraging them to continue.

Why Flash Died & Modern Game Dev Challenges:

• Flash's demise was largely triggered by Steve Jobs refusing to allow it on the iPhone due to security concerns and poor fit for touch interfaces.
• The rise of different platforms (mobile, console, varying web browsers) fragmented the ecosystem. A game built for one might not work on another.
• No single, easy entry point replaced Flash. Tools like GameMaker (used for Undertale), web tech like HTML5/Phaser, and big engines like Unity/Unreal are more complex or have steeper learning curves.
• Distribution is harder now. There aren't dominant web game portals; you need to build your own audience.
• The overall friction to get started in game dev feels higher now than during the Flash era, while web app development has arguably gotten easier (thanks to tools like React).
• Mobile app stores offered some hope but added their own friction (gatekeeping, less accessible tooling).

Critique of the Game Industry & Lack of Open Source:

• The current game dev landscape makes it tough for newcomers: tools are confusing, getting that first win takes too long, and sharing your creation is a pain.
• A huge contrast is drawn with web development, which thrived due to open source. Tools, libraries (like React), and countless examples are freely available.
• This open-source culture allows small teams to build amazing things and lets the whole field learn and progress together.
• Gaming missed this open-source revolution. There's a severe lack of good, publicly available game code examples or shared best practices.
• This hurts individuals trying to learn and also cripples AI's ability to generate good game code – there's simply not enough quality training data compared to web dev.
• Game code quality itself is often notoriously bad (the Undertale 'spaghetti code' example is cited, though with respect for the achievement).
• Innovation happens in silos. Wins in one proprietary engine (like Unreal or Unity) don't easily spread, hindering collective progress. The Frostbite engine debacle at EA is mentioned as a cautionary tale of forced, poorly suited engine use.
• The industry structure, with big publishers profiting while indie devs struggle, feels fundamentally broken and exploitative.

Critique of Gamer Culture:

• There's a strong opinion that "Gamers hate game devs."
• Unlike fans in music or film who often idolize creators, gamers frequently attack developers, fostering a toxic environment.
• Being a game dev is described as thankless: lower pay, less job security, harder work, and constant criticism compared to other software fields.
• This negativity actively pushes talented people away from making games.

Conclusion & Takeaways:

• AI game tools, despite their current flaws, are exciting because they drastically reduce the friction to get started, mirroring the early promise of Flash.
• They represent a potential shakeup, threatening the established, closed-off industry structure.
• The real value isn't AI making AAA games, but empowering more individuals (especially kids) to experiment and bring unique, perhaps unpolished, ideas to life.
• Fearing AI will kill jobs or creativity is missing the point; it's an accessibility tool.
• The game industry's hostility towards AI could backfire, creating a divide and pushing potential talent towards other, more welcoming fields (like web development).
• Actionable takeaway: Don't direct anger at AI tools or the people using them. Instead, challenge the problematic aspects of the mainstream game industry – the publishers, the lack of openness, the toxicity. Support indie developers and platforms like itch.io.
• Actionable takeaway: Vote with your wallet. Stop rewarding repetitive, graphically-focused releases from big studios (like constant Skyrim or Last of Us re-releases) if you want more creativity.